tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post2227398629521558725..comments2023-04-01T06:34:38.141-05:00Comments on Hyde Park Progress: How to Chase Small Businesses from Hyde Park in 14 Pointschicago pophttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17055796523227869734noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-79615099283345132492007-10-09T05:37:00.000-05:002007-10-09T05:37:00.000-05:00Curtsy said: "Just because there is a sign hanging...Curtsy said: "Just because there is a sign hanging from the building doesn't mean that there is necessarily a unit in THAT building available. However, call the MAC number, and they will certainly have units available in the area."<BR/><BR/>Boy, I hope that's not what they are doing. I suspect that would violate some type of ordinance. Those signs are really ugly and don't reflect well on the streets they hang on; it would be really unfair to others living in the area to hang them if it wasn't necessary.Famachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11117327917074489292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-2421057662140780342007-10-08T21:28:00.000-05:002007-10-08T21:28:00.000-05:00Ah, but you censored Emily's last line!Ah, but you censored Emily's last line!Elizabeth Famahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04931639156261179425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-45250693989632838962007-10-08T11:03:00.000-05:002007-10-08T11:03:00.000-05:00Further comments on this post are going to be heav...Further comments on this post are going to be heavily moderated until the temperature cools down in here.<BR/><BR/>I think this string has been played out as far as it can usefully go for most readers.<BR/><BR/>Stay tuned to future posts.chicago pophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17055796523227869734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-21884432878778187292007-10-08T10:51:00.000-05:002007-10-08T10:51:00.000-05:00Famac: "You know James, you really should spend so...Famac: "You know James, you really should spend some time thinking about how you interact with other people. I've never lobbed an insult your way, yet every one of your posts has some kind of needless dig. If you want people to respect your opinions, try a little civility."<BR/><BR/>In this thread alone, you've made an ageist comment, basically implying that your think elderly property owners are stupid.<BR/><BR/>And what about this exchange earlier in the thread:<BR/><BR/>"'1) Do the independents do this because they're stupid? They lose money on vacancies, after all.'<BR/><BR/>What if they own the property outright? All they lose is property tax and opportunity cost. Many don't understand the latter. And yes, they are probably stupid, too."<BR/><BR/>And that's just this thread. And you're going to try to lecture me on how to interact with people?<BR/><BR/>I try to be pretty patient with people and think a couple times before I react-- except for my one pet peeve with Hyde Parkers. I admit I go ballistic when people in this neighborhood start saying or implying that their neighbors are stupid.<BR/><BR/>This is one of the most educated neighborhoods in the world. If you think your neighbors are stupid, then you're oblivious beyond all help.jdwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14371972974472693564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-79737066172889313972007-10-08T10:07:00.000-05:002007-10-08T10:07:00.000-05:00I, too, read with amusement this "14 Point Plan" i...I, too, read with amusement this "14 Point Plan" in the Herald. Given its "Emily Litella-like" quality, this letter or "PLAN" can hardly be taken seriously. Yes, some of THE PLAN echoes NIMBY attitudes, however, it reaches a point where I expect a proposal to ban the letter P from the English language.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I know a few of the co-signees of the McMobil petition, and they are far from being senile crackpots (or self-serving elitists.) In fact, they are seriously committed to the larger community/society via community service and social justice. Recently, one of the signees shared with me, without prompting, that he thought the reference to "excessive blocking of sunlight on nearby homes" was, in his words, "NIMBY" and should not have been included. He also felt that the height restrictions could be reasonably extended beyond 4 stories (however, if the developer wants a variance, which is necessary to build beyond 4-stories, then he will need to play ball.) Furthermore, my friend completley agrees that Doctors' Hospital is not architectural significant and that a hotel development makes good sense. <BR/><BR/>So, in the words of Gilda Radner's Emily Latilla, "Never mind."<BR/><BR/>Chevy Chase: Weekend Update recognizes its obligation to present responsible opposing viewpoints to our editorials. Here to reply to a recent editorial, is Emily Litella.<BR/><BR/>Emily Litella: I'm here tonight to speak out against busting schoolchildren. Busting schoolchildren is a terrible, terrible thing. I hear this is going on all over the country. Mean policemen arrest little children and put them in jail in the wrong neighborhood, so they can't even play with their little friends. Imagine, busting schoolchildren! The food in jail isn't good, and even though they get bread, I don't believe they can get toast. Or nice cake. Now, who will tuck them in? Where will they hang their leggings? Where will they set up their little lemonade stands? Well, they don't have toys in jail, except maybe..<BR/><BR/>Chevy Chase: [ interrupting ] Miss Litella?<BR/><BR/>Emily Litella: Yes?<BR/><BR/>Chevy Chase: I'm sorry. The editorial was on bussing schoolchildren. Bussing. Not busting.<BR/><BR/>Emily Litella: Oh. I'm sorry. Never mind.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-81112411892700247172007-10-08T08:35:00.000-05:002007-10-08T08:35:00.000-05:00As for the presence of "MAC 'For Rent' signs every...As for the presence of "MAC 'For Rent' signs every twenty feet in East Hyde Park", I find it amusing that famac and letters to the Herald conclude that this is clear evidence of growing vacancy rates. Given the number of properties under MAC's management, I see it simply as evidence of MAC's marketing. Just because there is a sign hanging from the building doesn't mean that there is necessarily a unit in THAT building available. However, call the MAC number, and they will certainly have units available in the area.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-23569704078658344502007-10-08T08:16:00.000-05:002007-10-08T08:16:00.000-05:00James said: "In your sour way, you're interpreting...James said: "In your sour way, you're interpreting a property sale in the most negative way possible."<BR/><BR/><BR/>No, that's how I'm interpreting all of the "for rent" signs in front of their properties.<BR/><BR/>You know James, you really should spend some time thinking about how you interact with other people. I've never lobbed an insult your way, yet every one of your posts has some kind of needless dig.<BR/><BR/>If you want people to respect your opinions, try a little civility.Famachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11117327917074489292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-15819308168656934902007-10-07T14:57:00.000-05:002007-10-07T14:57:00.000-05:00Famac: "Please explain why you think the MAC group...Famac: "Please explain why you think the MAC group brought those properties."<BR/><BR/>In short, because they wanted them. They're bullish on Hyde Park. In fact, they've sunk a lot of money into this neighborhood. The point is, for every seller who believes a property should be sold, there's a buyer wanting to sell it. In your sour way, you're interpreting a property sale in the most negative way possible.<BR/><BR/>AFAIK, I've never met the former property owners. But I have met Eli Unger and I'm very impressed. He'll be taking questions from our neighbors on Tuesday, Oct 16, 7pm at the Neighborhood Club in an event hosted by HPKCC. This would be a chance to show some appreciation to a developer-- to walk the walk.jdwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14371972974472693564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-21111241623202208692007-10-07T11:40:00.000-05:002007-10-07T11:40:00.000-05:00"And you think elderly people are more likely to c..."And you think elderly people are more likely to charge high rents and be content with vacant properties? Really?"<BR/><BR/>It would appear that ageism is again rearing its ugly graying head.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-37166332368545808742007-10-05T20:58:00.000-05:002007-10-05T20:58:00.000-05:00JamesIt's been me on defense, with you coming up w...James<BR/><BR/>It's been me on defense, with you coming up with nothing but "think this thru."<BR/><BR/>Please explain why you think the MAC group brought those properties.Famachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11117327917074489292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-60789716652303786732007-10-05T17:45:00.000-05:002007-10-05T17:45:00.000-05:00Famac: "Why do you think that MAC group bought tha...Famac: "Why do you think that MAC group bought that entire portfolio of properties from that old real estate company? Because the old owners were smart enough to figure out the gig has run dry, and they got the hell out."<BR/><BR/>Ok. so why did Antaeus buy these properties. Let me guess-- you think they're stupid? Like your Co-op eviction plan, this is another thing you've thought about, but you haven't thought thru. <BR/><BR/>And you think elderly people are more likely to charge high rents and be content with vacant properties? Really?jdwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14371972974472693564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-53805872716655988342007-10-05T15:30:00.000-05:002007-10-05T15:30:00.000-05:00James: "Why would Hyde Park get more than its sha...James: "Why would Hyde Park get more than its share of "stupid" commercial independent property owners? That's the portion of your theory that makes no sense to me."<BR/><BR/>That's easy: I would guess that most of the people who own retail property in Hyde Park are elderly. They don't have a mortgage on the property, they own it outright. That's the case with my hairdresser's landlord, as explained last post.<BR/><BR/>So, when a rental property represents mostly cash flow with minimal cash outlay, you might be tempted to stick to a high rent, even though its no longer viable in the area. Afterall, all you have to do is cover the property tax if the place is empty.<BR/><BR/>On a related topic:<BR/><BR/>Why do you think that MAC group bought that entire portfolio of properties from that old real estate company? Because the old owners were smart enough to figure out the gig has run dry, and they got the hell out.<BR/><BR/>And guess what, there's a MAC for rent sign every twenty feet in East Hyde Park.<BR/><BR/>So it is supply and demand, and we are somewhere up to the right on the supply curve from the intersection of the two curves, sometimes know as market equilibrium.Famachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11117327917074489292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-233230602129585952007-10-05T10:11:00.000-05:002007-10-05T10:11:00.000-05:00Said c-pop:But with those specialty local chains (...<I>Said c-pop:<BR/>But with those specialty local chains (Red Hen is another fave) you run into the landlord problem: are you gonna have to bust heads to get the right build-out for your coffe shop or bakery?<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>That is a very good point. In my case, I had to kind of beg for a "build-in"... I actually wanted to *remove* street signage in order to return the (older and quite attractive) building facade to its naked self, opting instead for a restrained window laminate and a lower key appearance. I really dislike the way bad signage proliferates throughout the neighborhood and didn't want to contribute to it. In my case, the unit had a huge, hulking wooden sign 10 feet wide by 1.5 feet tall. The pale brickwork behind it it now exposed again, presumably bringing it back to its prewar appearance when my space was a cobbler's studio or a tiny speakeasy or a gumshoe's office.J/tatihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04940946530955628307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-86000524479376196192007-10-05T09:47:00.000-05:002007-10-05T09:47:00.000-05:00Famac: "To all: Vacancies = High Rent."That flies ...Famac: "To all: Vacancies = High Rent."<BR/><BR/>That flies in the face of simple supply and demand theory. Why would Hyde Park get more than its share of "stupid" commercial independent property owners? That's the portion of your theory that makes no sense to me.jdwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14371972974472693564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-22784667467841777432007-10-05T07:00:00.000-05:002007-10-05T07:00:00.000-05:00James said:"1) Do the independents do this because...James said:<BR/><BR/>"1) Do the independents do this because they're stupid? They lose money on vacancies, after all."<BR/><BR/>What if they own the property outright? All they lose is property tax and opportunity cost.<BR/><BR/>Many don't understand the latter.<BR/><BR/>And yes, they are probably stupid, too.<BR/><BR/>"2) Do the independents have some scheme we don't understand whereby they somehow benefit from unrented properties?"<BR/><BR/>Perhaps it doesn't hit the bottom line (see above). The guy who owns the Style International space is 80 years old.<BR/><BR/>To all: Vacancies = High Rent<BR/><BR/>Its simple economics, as I explained earlier. You can't compare other neighborhodd rents to Hyde Park.<BR/><BR/>Isn't that what this blog is about?? Why we need progress?Famachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11117327917074489292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-10580678980411368042007-10-04T22:50:00.000-05:002007-10-04T22:50:00.000-05:00J/Tati: for something like a coffee shop or a bake...J/Tati: for something like a coffee shop or a bakery I would imagine that something between $40-50/sq. ft. might be more challenging than for a bike shop that can conceivably bring in higher marginal returns off a $1,000 frame. It takes a lot of lattes to match that!<BR/><BR/>But with those specialty local chains (Red Hen is another fave) you run into the landlord problem: are you gonna have to bust heads to get the right build-out for your coffe shop or bakery?chicago pophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17055796523227869734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-84599901923099767932007-10-04T22:41:00.000-05:002007-10-04T22:41:00.000-05:00I don't really consider $40 too high if the space ...I don't really consider $40 too high if the space is small. <BR/><BR/>I think Hyde Park could use two different categories of dynamic retail. One type is like mine: small footprint, artisinal, independent. We can pay higher rates, but time is more valuable than money, so we can't wade through 30 page lease agreements and wait 3-6 months for decisions (and I'm not talking about zoning or permits)... but this is kind of true when leasing from government and larger institutions in general. <BR/><BR/>The other category is high quality, well funded medium sized operations that have proven highly successful in similar neighborhoods... local chains... something like Bleeding Heart Bakery or Metropolis Coffee or a great Vietnamese or Mexican restaurant. Larger boutiques like Penelope's in Ukranian Village. Paper Source in Wicker Park, etc etc. These businesses have access to greater capital obviously and can absorb the costs of an unpredictable lead time. There is a strong captive, willing audience for these businesses here! Nevertheless, perhaps this is yelping to the choir on this blog, I dunno.J/tatihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04940946530955628307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-33032293094752161092007-10-04T21:47:00.000-05:002007-10-04T21:47:00.000-05:00The rents on 53rd, according to my information, ar...The rents on 53rd, according to my information, are indeed high, at around $40 sq.ft. enough to scare off small retailers. Whether this is caused by the University setting the rate in a neighborhood with a shortage of retail space, I don't know. But it very well could be. It could also be just plain greed, and there's some evidence for this. Some local landlords don't want to do what it takes to attract national chains, or want something simple and quick, like a bank branch. The whole saga of Istria having to wait forever to get into HPAC, after getting jerked around by METRA because the latter didn't want to build out the plumbing at the 51st St. viaduct is a case in point. The guys on 53rd could have nationals if they were a little more savvy, is my sense. <BR/><BR/>Getting cool retail takes much more deliberate preparation.chicago pophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17055796523227869734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-68640488166745852712007-10-04T21:32:00.000-05:002007-10-04T21:32:00.000-05:00James: "You seem to be suggesting that the Univ sh...James: "You seem to be suggesting that the Univ should start eviction proceedings because the Co-op is behind on the rent."<BR/><BR/>Famac: "That's what generally happens."<BR/><BR/>And then what happens next?<BR/><BR/>Famac: "The rest of the retail renters in Hyde Park follow the Universities lead with high rents, thus large vacancies."<BR/><BR/>You're offering no proof for this assertion. Why should we believe you instead of JTati who stated earlier in this thread:<BR/><BR/>JTati:"...in my observation it's the independently own spaces that are well below market rate. The new MAC-managed spaces are basically priced spot on, and the University owned units aren't so much overpriced, as they are simply unavailable."<BR/><BR/>My read of the University's motives is that they care less about making money and more about controlling their environment. Granted, money helps them with the latter, but it's a means to an end.<BR/><BR/>KHS stated:"It’s been my experience (as well as may other retailers) that University Real Estate makes it abnormally difficult to do business in the neighborhood with ridiculous lease clauses, high rents, and their general controlling nature."<BR/><BR/>I hear more complaints about the lease clauses than about the high rent, but his experience is noted.<BR/><BR/>Famac, if you really believe that the Univ is somehow charging too much for rent and that then the independent retail property owners are following their lead, thus creating vacancies, then you'd have to explain one of two things to be creditable. <BR/><BR/>1) Do the independents do this because they're stupid? They lose money on vacancies, after all.<BR/><BR/>or 2) Do the independents have some scheme we don't understand whereby they somehow benefit from unrented properties?<BR/><BR/>Why don't you trust market incentives to sort this out?jdwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14371972974472693564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-76204563794993357972007-10-04T14:37:00.000-05:002007-10-04T14:37:00.000-05:00James: "You seem to be suggesting that the Univ s...James: "You seem to be suggesting that the Univ should start eviction proceedings because the Co-op is behind on the rent."<BR/><BR/>That's what generally happens.<BR/><BR/>James: "Think this thru."<BR/><BR/>I am thinking, thanks again. <BR/><BR/>James: "What are you talking about? What business model? And how is it destroying HP retail? You're just making wild assertions."<BR/><BR/>The Pullman Town business model: own the bulk of rental properties to control the neighborhood and extract profits. <BR/><BR/>The problem is, the growth of the University has resulted in less population to support the stores, but the University isn't lowering rents to reflect declining sales.<BR/><BR/>The rest of the retail renters in Hyde Park follow the Universities lead with high rents, thus large vacancies. <BR/><BR/>James: "Wouldn't you want her to live somewhere that has a healthy retail climate so she knows what she should aim for?"<BR/><BR/>No, I think people working for the University that make important decisions about Hyde Park should live in Hyde Park. She can drive to areas with healthy retail climates, just like everyone else.Famachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11117327917074489292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-40045899595730539842007-10-03T22:58:00.000-05:002007-10-03T22:58:00.000-05:00Famac: "Your comments chill me to the bone. If I r...Famac: "Your comments chill me to the bone. If I read between the lines, you seem to be suggesting that the University won't let the Co-Op fail because they couldn't find a tenant to replace them!?!"<BR/><BR/>No, I'm not commenting on that either way. I'm trying to get you to understand the process. It's not a matter of the Univ letting the Co-op fail. You seem to be suggesting that the Univ should start eviction proceedings because the Co-op is behind on the rent. Is that what you're saying? If so, what would happen next? Think this thru. <BR/><BR/>Famac: "The University is using a business model that they've outgrown, and its destroying Hyde Park retail."<BR/><BR/>What are you talking about? What business model? And how is it destroying HP retail? You're just making wild assertions.<BR/><BR/>Famac: "I bet the guy who runs the Universities retail rentals doesn't even live in Hyde Park."<BR/><BR/>The guy specifically responsible for the Univ's retail rentals is a woman. Why does it matter whether she lives in HP or not? Wouldn't you want her to live somewhere that has a healthy retail climate so she knows what she should aim for?jdwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14371972974472693564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-33005323018228725942007-10-03T18:52:00.000-05:002007-10-03T18:52:00.000-05:00James: "I didn't say you're not thinking, just not...James: "I didn't say you're not thinking, just not thinking this thru."<BR/><BR/>:) That's funny, anyway.<BR/><BR/>James: "So, think this thru: what would it mean to find another tenant? What would have to happen? You don't just snap your fingers and change out tenants, right?"<BR/><BR/>You've used the word "we" a lot in your last post, so I'm assuming you are a Co-Op insider of some sort.<BR/><BR/>Your comments chill me to the bone. If I read between the lines, you seem to be suggesting that the University won't let the Co-Op fail because they couldn't find a tenant to replace them!?!<BR/><BR/>To me, this is screaming Pullman Town like no one's business!! <BR/><BR/>Let's just push this logic to its limit and see what happens.<BR/><BR/>If the University charged no rent, how many grocery stores would take the space? I bet every chain in town would be in line.<BR/><BR/>So clearly, the combination of the rent and potential revenues from the site don't add up to a profit (as you must be fully aware).<BR/><BR/>The rent is too high, or the Co-Op would be long gone and replaced by a new tenant. No tenants will accept the terms.<BR/><BR/>The University owns tons of property in Hyde Park, but the've also consumed a great deal of the area as the University expands.<BR/><BR/>As the wealth level of students rises, expecting them to patronize struggling Hyde Park businesses is a recipe for disaster. <BR/><BR/>The University is using a business model that they've outgrown, and its destroying Hyde Park retail.<BR/><BR/>Too many eggs in one basket. I bet the guy who runs the Universities retail rentals doesn't even live in Hyde Park.Famachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11117327917074489292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-83236376786398691472007-10-03T15:20:00.000-05:002007-10-03T15:20:00.000-05:00khs: I did get lucky, yet. Last winter I narrowed ...khs: I did get lucky, yet. Last winter I narrowed my choices down to three units, all near the intersection of S Hyde Park. One unit was so ridiculously overpriced that I couldn't believe it. I guess a popcorn store (whatever that is) will be filling the spot. <BR/><BR/>On the other hand, my funny little studio *does* have a radiator mounted to the ceiling (?1) which leaks of course. <BR/><BR/>famac: yes, cycling is now experiencing two simultaneous waves in Chicago: the "green anti-oil" wave among high end commuters (see our Mayor's recent pronouncements on this topic) and a redux of the 70s road bike boom (the lakeshore path is clogged with lycra clad folks as early as 7am). It is a feast or famine business, and fortunately times are good at the moment. Still, Hyde Park will always be good for bicycle services given the low rate of auto ownership, access to the path, and university population.J/tatihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04940946530955628307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-47562949718119518602007-10-03T13:01:00.000-05:002007-10-03T13:01:00.000-05:00As small business person who rents a few propertie...As small business person who rents a few properties from the U of C I’m amazed to hear there is still reasonably priced retail space available in Hyde Park. My rents are unquestionably on the high side - upwards of $38/sq ft in two locations with absolutely no services, a yearly PMI increase and I have to pay the property taxes.(who does this?)<BR/><BR/>It’s been my experience (as well as may other retailers) that University Real Estate makes it abnormally difficult to do business in the neighborhood with ridiculous lease clauses, high rents, and their general controlling nature. It’s no wonder so many stores have gone out of business on 57th St.khshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07782424083486139888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-129809930023691832007-10-03T10:18:00.000-05:002007-10-03T10:18:00.000-05:00Famac:"When an asset is underperforming its target...Famac:"When an asset is underperforming its target return, its usually fixed or sold. In the case of the Co-Op, either it turns around or you find another tenant."<BR/><BR/>I didn't say you're not thinking, just not thinking this thru. So, think this thru: what would it mean to find another tenant? What would have to happen? You don't just snap your fingers and change out tenants, right?<BR/><BR/>A couple facts about the Co-op being behind in the rent. Until Jan of this year, we had gradually built up to being 5 months behind. The additional months behind have happened this calendar year. My point is that the really egregious unpaid rents are recent.<BR/><BR/>Another fact to consider. By not paying rent, we've been able to keep the shelves stocked.jdwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14371972974472693564noreply@blogger.com