tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post8871218055285928210..comments2023-04-01T06:34:38.141-05:00Comments on Hyde Park Progress: The University and Lab School ECC Plan: Too Hasty?chicago pophttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17055796523227869734noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-35544670803078767352010-04-18T20:32:54.526-05:002010-04-18T20:32:54.526-05:00Correcting the Record,
As the design architect fo...Correcting the Record,<br /><br />As the design architect for the reconstruction of the Lab School campus, including the proposed ECC building on Stony Island, I am very concerned and interested in Ms. Fama's analysis of our plans. <br /><br />She has stated in this blog and at a community meeting a few months ago that we have cited the Google Early Childhood Center as a model for our designs. She has tried to discredit our whole endeavor due to her statements that the yearly tuition at these centers is $57,000/year.<br /><br />When Ms. Fama made this statement, I have to admit that I was taken aback, realizing that I did not know what the tuition was at the Google centers. But since Google is a major client of ours, I wrote the head of facilities and inquired about the tuition. It turns out that the tuition ranges from a low of $1,700 per month to a high of $1,900 per month.<br /><br />So Ms. Fama's statements on this point are sadly inaccurate. And of course this brings into question her other "facts."<br /><br />JMVyouknowwhohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03000376016651583212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-4200114002407549172010-02-20T21:01:53.238-06:002010-02-20T21:01:53.238-06:00The teachers being unionized really messes up my f...The teachers being unionized really messes up my first post and it is no wonder R. Gill mistook me as serious.<br /><br />And I pretty much completely agree with all of your points including that the U is going to let 56th-59th rot for 10 years or more (not quite what you said but . . .).<br /><br />As far as the DH site the big problem is the only things that will work there require a "captive" audience. I don't think parking would work there as they seem to have scrapped the proposed lot on 61st--with a hotel out of the picture and zero hopes of attracting restaurants because the neighbors hate booze there seem to be only a few options left. <br /><br />Currently the university seems to be tying itself in knots trying to deal with student transportation because there is absolutely nothing of interest near the school. Because of that woodlawn and ellis are probably two of the most messed up streets in chicago with all the buses needed on essentially residential streets. (I'm sure one of the transportation geeks can point out more messed up streets.)<br /><br />Despite that the U has decided to focus on 53rd street which will be the focus of local transportation. Which means anything at DH must essentially be a non-university subsidized destination. If it weren't surrounded by HP a big box store would probably be the most obvious candidate--there is probably enough room for two big box stores, it doesn't compete with other HP retail, and driving is easy from all directions.WoodLawn Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01008957873206775811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-25746552635916418132010-02-20T09:24:31.281-06:002010-02-20T09:24:31.281-06:00Woodlawn Jack -- 1) the Lab School teachers are un...Woodlawn Jack -- 1) the Lab School teachers are unionized. 2) I think traffic on 59th will be <i>increased</i> by a Stony ECC because families that currently walk to school but who have children above and below grade 2 will all begin to drive their kids to school. 3)I met with a University administrator on Thursday, and it was clear from our conversation that revitalizing Stony Island between 56th and 59th is not a current priority. The U. is extremely focused on revitalizing 53rd Street. In fact, anything you might suggest for the DH site that's a better use than a school is something the U. would rather see on 53rd Street.<br /><br />Since as a Lab parent I'd prefer the new ECC to be on the existing campus (mostly for cultural and pedagogical reasons, and to promote a walking/biking culture as much as possible), I think they should tear down the DH building, put in a parking lot for the moment (that would make Lab teachers happy) and sit on it for 10 years until they figure out the best use for it and are ready to think about Stony Island as a whole.Elizabeth Famahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04931639156261179425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-87117004169750104012010-02-19T21:06:50.177-06:002010-02-19T21:06:50.177-06:00I was definitely being snarky--I however don't...I was definitely being snarky--I however don't actually know whether the lab school teachers are unionized or not; I just assume like most private schools that they are not. (Admittedly comparing hotel employees to private grade school teachers may be like comparing fish to oranges.)<br /><br />All that aside--personally I think the school plan is a great under utilization of the DH site. I also think that building on the soccer field and keeping the school together sounds better--although it keeps the traffic problem.<br /><br />However I also completely agree that the school location and land use is something that should be largely up to the land owner and the parents of students. **If** The U decides to build the school on the DH site I'd sort of think it is because they have given up on developing that spot, which I also think means the rest of that street is essentially dead as far as turning it around to medium to light commercial/retail use.WoodLawn Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01008957873206775811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-22248525708824293612010-02-19T13:44:10.743-06:002010-02-19T13:44:10.743-06:00@GlassHospital: au contraire, mon ami. I'm al...@GlassHospital: au contraire, mon ami. I'm all for change, and if the Lab Schools wants a new ECC, that's fine with me. I'm only disagreeing about where it should be built!<br /><br />@lighteningrodd: This has nothing to do with logistical entitlement. I worry that this plan will increase the driving culture of the school. That will have a lot of unplanned effects, from things as small as how much and what kinds of informal interactions parents have within the school community, to things as large as how this supposedly "green" building will actually affect the environment. <br /><br />@Dick Gill: I think Woodlawn Jack was being sarcastic. He's saying that the stated reasons for opposing the hotel have also not been met with this new ECC plan (e.g. the building is NOT being preserved), and yet the neighbors are apparently OK with it this time.Elizabeth Famahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04931639156261179425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-89055653444781857812010-02-19T09:47:11.066-06:002010-02-19T09:47:11.066-06:00"New school:
Preserve hospital--CHECK"
..."New school:<br />Preserve hospital--CHECK"<br /><br />I don't think so. Based on what the U of C has said thus far, they see no purpose in saving the hospital building. The reasons given are economic, structural, architectural, and overall utility and suitability.<br /><br />I wish they would just demolish the lugubrious old building, so it is gone and out of the picture. Arguments about preservation and rehabilitation are red herrings that only serve to distract from the main task at hand: putting a useful, attractive and safe facility on the site.Richard Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02773215580457414540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-3634714672799544052010-02-18T16:44:45.237-06:002010-02-18T16:44:45.237-06:00I must say I find it ironic that a HPP blogger is ...I must say I find it ironic that a HPP blogger is making arguments (albeit fairly strong and convincing ones) against changing/improving/updating a neighborhood institution.<br /><br />Plus ca change...GlassHospitalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01125026979326544590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-51451839450610579872010-02-18T12:35:52.846-06:002010-02-18T12:35:52.846-06:00Let's make a general assumption that the unive...Let's make a general assumption that the university isn't stupid. Remember that the lab school is private and therefore depends on tuition dollars. Therefore the school wouldn't be stupid enough to do anything that threatens that revenue, unlike a public school which has a captive market. If parents don't like the ECC and lab school they have options(St. Ignatius, Parker, Latin, etc). If they decided to split the schools, assume they have a good reason. Some of the comments refer to the logistical problems that parents might face if they have to drop kids off at both sites. Are you kidding me? the sites are like 4-5blks apart, i guess some people assume that they're entitled to a school within a 1000ft of their house. I slightly disagree w/ Gill, because university needs to sell the idea only to parents(tuition payers). However, the idea that they need to have public(non-tuition payers) input is ridiculous for the reasons that Gill states.Lightningroddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14947552730126821634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-2625376420292219832010-02-18T12:34:27.157-06:002010-02-18T12:34:27.157-06:00From the Maroon's coverage of the DH/White Lod...From the Maroon's coverage of the DH/White Lodging thing . . .<br /><br />"Neighborhood residents said their concerns about the preservation of the building, traffic and noise concerns, and the non-unionized status of White Lodging garnered little response from the University or White Lodging."<br /><br />New School:<br />Preserve hospital--CHECK<br />No change in traffic or noise--CHECK<br />Site used by unionized employees of the Lab School--CHECKWoodLawn Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01008957873206775811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-49904403145506668482010-02-17T13:17:02.608-06:002010-02-17T13:17:02.608-06:00...the public's right of review stops at the p...<i>...the public's right of review stops at the project's potential impact in the community.</i><br /><br />I should probably have stated that all of the opinions I offer (even on this blog) about the suitability of the Stony location for the ECC are offered as a Lab parent, not just as a member of the public. (As a member of the public with no investment in the Lab Schools, I might take RDB's stance that anything is better than the current abandoned building.) That said, the meeting was <i>billed as</i> my chance as a Lab parent to review the project, ask questions, and offer concerns. They do seem to be quite open in their representation of the project; I was really just expressing my sense that the appeal for our participation in the exploration process didn't feel fully candid. Perhaps "openness" is the wrong word for that, though.<br /><br /><i>Does anybody really believe the University would deliberately put the ECC on Stony Island if it didn't look like the right thing for the school and its students? Does anybody think the University would propose that location, just to use that location, if they thought it would be detrimental to the surrounding community?</i><br /><br />Of course the University can build as it likes, and of course the ECC won't be <i>detrimental</i> to the block, but it also won't be the <i>best</i> use of the space. Again, that's an opinion, not a commandment to use the property the way Beth Fama says. But that's the point of blogs -- to discuss things in an opinionated way. <br /><br />I do think the U of C has made building mistakes in the past, so I don't agree with your statement that if they've settled on this plan, it's right for the Lab Schools. And while the plan is not bad for the community, and given that the much-needed hotel/restaurant/bar can't happen, I think my proposed residential uses are better!Elizabeth Famahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04931639156261179425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-56277662274250872432010-02-16T17:06:25.151-06:002010-02-16T17:06:25.151-06:00Good questions, above, but it's time for me to...Good questions, above, but it's time for me to be old and crusty again. There's stuff the public should be able to review, and there's stuff that nobody has to let them see. <br /><br />Openness is a matter of how a proposed project is presented for public discussion and review. Openness does not preclude a private organization and its benefactors from first deciding what they want, especially if it's on their own property. The public can decide whether or not it likes the proposal, request changes, accept it, or outright oppose it. After that, it may get built anyway, unless some economic, political or legal roadblock prevents it.<br /><br />In the case of the proposed Early Childhood Center, the public's right of review stops at the project's potential impact in the community. (The "public" includes the Alderman). Whether or not locating the ECC on Stony Island is good for the Lab School is the University's business. How the school manages its operations, logistics and education delivery is its own affair. Does anybody really believe the University would deliberately put the ECC on Stony Island if it didn't look like the right thing for the school and its students? Does anybody think the University would propose that location, just to use that location, if they thought it would be detrimental to the surrounding community? They are not stupid.<br /><br />As to why there were not more questions at the meeting about the project's effect on education—I would guess that most parents would discuss this personally with the administration, not out in public. That's what I'd do.Richard Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02773215580457414540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-2288032713310774062010-02-16T16:12:03.543-06:002010-02-16T16:12:03.543-06:00I agree it would be nice to know what thoughts (if...I agree it would be nice to know what thoughts (if any) the U has about the redevelopment of Stony Island between 59th and 56th. It does seem a shame that such a seemingly great location is such a snoozer. I can't get over how nice it would have been to have a hotel, a couple of restaurants, and a couple of bars right there... But you can say the same for vitually all of East Hyde Park. We lived in Regents Park for awhile in 2005, and while the transportation linkages were great on that side of the tracks, there sure weren't the kind of lifestyle amenities one would expect from an exclusive, lakefront, high-density population area.<br /><br />Having said that, I'm glad VH residents have been more or less receptive to the possibility of the ECC on Stony. It's not the BEST use of the DH spot, IMO, but at least it's A use.rdbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10103840395230003048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-23297837242137753202010-02-16T13:06:48.867-06:002010-02-16T13:06:48.867-06:00One young Vista Homes couple (with kids at the Lab...One young Vista Homes couple (with kids at the Lab Schools) merely expressed thanks that the process was more open than with the hotel, and said they supported the ECC on Stony. (I'm still mulling the claim of openness: something I can't place about the presentation made it feel like a "done deal.") Another, older VH couple had questions about parking, I think.<br /><br />The only hard-hitting question (this one from a Lab parent) was about what sense it made to bus young children to and from the main school on a daily basis, rather than to bus high schoolers less frequently to a regulation soccer field. Another person asked whether there was a pedagogical reason to lump grades N - 2 together in a separate facility. As far as I remember, that was it for questions (other than things like, "Are you planning to have bike racks?"). I'm still scratching my head over why there aren't more vocal questions and concerns about this project. I think it's because if a person doesn't ask the questions I posed in the post (is this the best use for the DH site, and is this the best place for the ECC?), on the face of it the project seems, well, unobjectionable. A person might think, "If the Lab School wants it so badly, it must be good for the kids, right? And a school next door will at least be quiet at night..."<br /><br />My blog post is mostly editorializing, but Asher Klein of the Maroon has a clean, factual review of the meeting <a href="http://www.chicagomaroon.com/2010/2/16/two-sites-proposed-for-lab-school-addition" rel="nofollow"> here. </a>Elizabeth Famahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04931639156261179425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4186587935097536129.post-33692650030533666232010-02-16T09:10:59.725-06:002010-02-16T09:10:59.725-06:00What were the concerns raised by the Stony Island ...What were the concerns raised by the Stony Island neighbors?Richard Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02773215580457414540noreply@blogger.com